From: Macaws-Digest-Owner@newwave.net To: Macaws-Digest@newwave.net Subject: Macaws Digest V6 #216 Reply-To: macaws@newwave.net Errors-To: Macaws-Digest-Owner@newwave.net Precedence: Macaws Digest Wednesday, 28 August 1996 Volume 06 : Number 216 In this issue: Re: [Fwd: Bird Fairs-- Polyoma everywhere] Bird Stories Re: Lorikeets Re: Roudybush for Lorikeets RE:Paint Poly Virus Re: [Fwd: Bird Fairs-- Polyoma everywhere] Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 Re: greenwing Re: Cockatoo owners and the terrible twos Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 Re: Severe Macaws Re: Severe Macaws Re: polyoma and fairs/shows Re: Lee's Babies! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the Macaws or Macaws-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roy Epperson Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:36:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Bird Fairs-- Polyoma everywhere] Carla Howell wrote: > I like both products. I use the oxyfresh to bath in, the Vanodine for syringes, and the > Dentagene for my cages. > > Boy what we go through to keep our birds safe. > > Carla What strenght of Vanodine do you use, what's recommended on the bottle or ?? Do you need to rinse after using Vanodine? I heard differing options. Roy ------------------------------ From: Julie & Jon Stires Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:35:25 -0600 Subject: Bird Stories So far I have received some wonderful stories and I really appreciate all the input. Several people have asked for a copy of the original message so they could pass it on to others. If you know of anyone else who can include it in their newsletters or other lists (eclectus, birdpoop, aol, compuserve), here is all the information they might want as well as a copy of my original request. Thanks again, Julie Hopkins #1 Aspen Dr. #78 Loveland, CO 80538 comoles@ix.netcom.com Since I do a lot of educational work with my parrots I hear from a lot of people who have had their lives affected by birds in one way or another. It is amazing all the ways our birds, and those of others can influence our lifestyles and beliefs. I would like to ask that anyone who has any particularly funny, hilarious, sad, special, or otherwise significant to you bird story to please send me your account of what happened. I am compiling a collection of these stories and they may be published. Please let me know of any significant information you would/or not like to have included. Whether it happened to you, your great grandparents or even in the newspaper I would really appreciate anything you all can share. Send as many as you like but please send to me direct to avoid clogging the lists & irritating others especially if they are long. Thanks in advance. Julie ------------------------------ From: "Debbie Skidmore" Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:47:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Lorikeets Linda, Thanks so much for the info. I always have baby foods on hand to feed my little monkey. He still takes a bottle with the Hi-Protein cereal mixed in with the soy based formula. I'll try some honey and cereal in the morning for my Lory. I think next time I get some Lory food, I'll try the Necton Lory Powder. That way I can ascertain that he is receiving all necessary nutrients. I agree, this guy is hyperactive. Maybe I should try his diet and see if it gives me lots of energy! Debbie - ---------- > From: Linda Baker > To: macaws@newwave.net > Subject: Lorikeets > Date: Monday, August 26, 1996 1:13 PM > > Debbie, > Hi, I have a 6year old chattering yellowback lory. > He is a wild caught bird. I feed him Necton Lory Powder. It does > not really have a smell. Some days I put a little warm water to > make a nectar and he loves it. Frenchie also eats bananas everyday. > He also loves corn on the cob and carrotts and sweetpotatoes. > Any kind of soft food and he will eat it. He loves Hi-Protien > baby cereal with a little honey and warm water added to it. > Also the cut up fruits and veggies(cause they are soft) babyfood. > Basically he eats all different kinds of soft food with his Necton. > A bottle of it lasts about 2 months and costs about 40.00 here in Mi. > Frenchie is a great talker and is situation appropriate in his > comments. He was talking at 3 months also. He also likes to immitate > other wildlife and can immitate each of out dogs barks(all 9)and the > 6 other birds we have. He will get the dogs barking and then tell them > to shut-up. He also likes to immitate hawks and police car sirens. > Frenchie has a wood box attached to his macaw sized cage to sleep > in. He rips up paper towels to sleep in. Lories like a lot of room > cause they are so hyperactive. Be sure to be firm but gentle with him > cause they will allways try to get the upper hand and can be > aggressive. Lories are entertaining and inquisitive birds. > Enjoy, Linda > ------------------------------ From: "Debbie Skidmore" Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:49:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Roudybush for Lorikeets Frank, What type of Lory do you have? How old is it? Is it talking? What type of personality does it have? Debbie - ---------- > From: lom@tron.flex.net > To: macaws@newwave.net > Subject: Re: Roudybush for Lorikeets > Date: Monday, August 26, 1996 7:18 PM > > > hello debbie I to have been feeding roudybush to all my birds.So when > i ran out of food for my lorie that I got from the breeder I to got > roudybush for my lorie,and yes it smells real bad.I hope thats ok bird > seems to love it to.If this is wrong someone please let us know. frank > frank > Meg and Frank > Dunkin- redlored (13y.o.); Newton- nape (2 y.o.); > Clarence- U'too (2 y.o.); and in 3 months greenwing > See Home Page at: > http://www.flex.net/users/lom/pets.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: m.gambalie@juno.com (Mark Gambalie) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:48:37 PST Subject: RE:Paint >Can any one tell me if their is a safe paint to use for a cage. I got a >message from someone but wanted to check here before I call her back. > >Casey > Bird City USA suggests Krylon, it is supposed to be safe. ------------------------------ From: m.gambalie@juno.com (Mark Gambalie) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:56:18 PST Subject: Poly Virus All the discussion about Poly has reminded me of a question that has never been answered to my satisfaction. Does anybody know: How long can the poly virus remain viable in the environment without a host? Most articles and books say 'a long time', but how long is 'long'; a month, 6 months, a year??? mg ------------------------------ From: Gillian Willis Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 22:34:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Bird Fairs-- Polyoma everywhere] Carla wrote: . I like both products. I use the oxyfresh to bath in, the Vanodine for syringes, and the Dentagene for my cages. and Roy responded: . What strenght of Vanodine do you use, what's recommended on the bottle or ?? Do you need to rinse after using Vanodine? I heard differing options. ====== Hello Carla and Roy: The subject of disinfectants keeps cropping up on various lists. I am not familiar with Dentagene and do not have a listing of its formulation. Carla, I would appreciate your letting me know what this product contains so that I cna comment on its efficacy and safety. Because of the interest in disinfectants ( I get private e-mails on this topic as well, I am going to prepare a summary of the pros and cons of the various types that are available to bird owners/aviculturists. BTW, Vanodine should not be used for syringes. The iodine will be taken up into the plastic. After using any disinfectant for bird dishes, cages etc, rinsing with fresh water is necessary. I am attaching copies of two of my previous posts on this topic FYI. The first: Re Vanodine: Regarding disinfectants- this is a complex topic and I am unable to discuss this fully here. I have access to numerous journal articles on this topic as well as two excellent textbooks for you or anyone else who may be interested, to refer to. The first is Handbook of Disinfectants and Antiseptics edited by Joseph M. Ascenzi and published by Marcel Dekker, Inc. New York,1996. (300 pages) ISBN 0-8247-9524-5. The other is Disinfection, Sterilization, and Preservation (4 th edition) by Seymour Block. Published by Lea & Febiger, Philadelphia, 1991. (1162 pages). ISBN 0-8121-1364-0. (There is an entire chapter on Disinfection and Disease Prevention in Veterinary Medicine). A good review article on this topic is: Rutula WA. APIC Guidelines for infection control practice, Am J Infect Control 1990;18:99-117. (APIC is the Assoc. for Practitioners in Infection Control) Just a quick overview of sterilization and disinfection: Disinfectants are referred to as high, intermeciate or low level. . Sterilization - used for crtical items that will enter tissue or vascular system or blodd will flow through them. . Disinfection . high level - for semicritical items that will come in contact with mucous mambranes or nonintact skin. . intermediate - for some semicritical items and noncritical items. . low level- for noncritical items that will come in contact with intact skin. There is no one disinfectant that will be safe for all purposes and effective against all microorganisms. Vanodine is an iodophor which is a combination of iodine and a solubilizing agent or a carrier. Iodophors are bactericidal, virucidal and mycobacterial but may required prolonged contact times to kill certain fungi and spores. Iodophors are not suitable for use as hard-surface disinfectants because they contain significantly less free iodine than iodine formulated disinfectants. Iodine can cause damage to hard surfaces. Iodine is inactivated in the presence of organic material and iodine vapours can cause upper respiratory tract damage in concentrations > 1.0 mg/ cubic meter. Iodine preparations are not recommended for use for disinfecting room air. Some individuals have iodine allergies. Chlorine-releasing antibacterials (CRA's) such as sodium hypochlorite found in household bleach have a wide spectrum of antimicrobial action and are fast-acting. Like iodine, chlorine is inactivated by organic matter. CRA's are widely used in dairy production, food production and catering industries because, unlike iodine, do not leave toxic residues and are environmentally friendly. In comparing the antimicrobial spectrum of disinfectants, chlorine was shown to be more effective than iodine against Gram negative bacteria, and enveloped and non-enveloped viruses. It had a similar spectrum of activity as iodine against all other micororganisms. The synthetic phenolic disinfectants (eg ortho phenyl phenol) have the advantage over iodine/iodophors and CRA's in that they are effective in the presence of organic matter and have a residual effect. When comparing their spectrum of activity to the halogens (iodine and chlorine), they may be less effective against fungal spores, Chlamydia and enveloped viruses. They are ineffective against bacterial spores. Synthetic phenolics are excellent for use on hard surfaces but are not recommended for use to clean nursery incubators or bassinets. This would also apply to brooder units. In summary, there is no one disinfectant that will serve all of our needs as aviculturists/bird owners. CRA's are cheap and are more effective against certain microorganisms than iodine. Iodophors have less active than iodine disinfectants (eg Tincture of Iodine). Synthetic phenolics have a residual effect and are effective in the presence of organic material. Iodine products are not recommemded for air disinfection. Iodine can be absorbed through the skin and routine use topically on a bird or animal is not recommended. This is a fascinating topic of interest to us all. I have given you a short overview only. I am not advocating any one product over another. I hope that you will be able to make you own decisions based on the brief information that I have provided. I have provided some references for those of who wish to read further on this topic. You will note that my information has been updated with the most current material available. ======= .and the second: Denise wrote: I have found that Shaklee products, Basic-G is an excellent way to disinfect cages, etc. It has been recommended by vets, as long as you rinse the cage, etc. very good with hot water! ===================== Hello Denise: Shaklee Basic G contains quaternary ammonium compounds (quats) also referred to as cationic detergents. These compounds are active against a wide range of microorganisms but have the disadvantage of being inactivated in the presence of anionic detergents (eg liquid dishwashing detergents). They are less effective against some microorganisms than chlorine releasing agents (eg. sodium hypochlorite- an ingredient of household bleach). There is no one disinfectant that will serve all of our purposes. The cheapest and most effective are the chlorine-releasing agents (CRA's). Household bleach is relatively safe and effective. As with any dsinfecting agent, dishes etc should be rinsed well with fresh water after use. Chlorine-releasing agents are safer, cheaper and more effective than iodine/iodophor disinfectants. The halogens, chlorine and iodine/idophors have the disadvantage of being inactivated by organic material. Synthetic phenols are less effective against some microorganisms than the halogens, but have the advantage of being effective in the presence of organic material. Chlorhexidine (Novalsan) is safe for use on feeding utensils. It has a low order of toxicity, but is less effective against some microorganisms than the CRA's. ======== Oxyfresh scented all purpose deodorizer contains chlorine dioxide so is classified as a chlorine releasing agent (CRA). Hope this helps. Gillian Willis Vancouver, B.C. willis@dpic.bc.ca ------------------------------ From: Jeri Wright Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:46:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 Mary Knapp wrote: > > I'd like the answer to this question, also. The seed-catcher to my macaw's > cage is extremely scratched up, and I'd like to paint it before I put it > back on. It's black, and I'd appreciate any suggestions. > > Mary > > At 03:27 PM 8/27/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Can any one tell me if their is a safe paint to use for a cage. I got a > >message from someone but wanted to check here before I call her back. > > > >Casey > > > > > > Mary Knapp, Gillette, Wyoming > Owned by Igor, B&G; Zaphod, DYHA; and Bogie, CAG Any paint that is safe for a baby crib is safe for bird cages, just make sure it does not have a rust inhibitor (usually Zink) in it. Jeri ------------------------------ From: wemalaca@sowest.net (William Malacarne) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 01:39:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 At 22:46 8/27/96 -0700, Jeri Wright wrote: > >Any paint that is safe for a baby crib is safe for bird cages, just make >sure it does not have a rust inhibitor (usually Zink) in it. >Jeri > Is zink safe for a baby? Bill ------------------------------ From: Janet Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:53:21 +0000 Subject: Re: greenwing Please dump 'Guide to a Well-Behaved Parrot' and buy 'My Parrot, My Friend' by Doane and Qualkenbush. There are some recommendations in 'Guide...' that can seriously traumatize your bird (ie. dropping, pulling feathers). Janet >I've slept with "guide to a well behaved parrot" under my pillow with >our first bird Dunkin >any suggestion for books I should read prior to our babies arrival >will be wonderful as well as any hints/suggestions etc. ------------------------------ From: Janet Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:53:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Cockatoo owners and the terrible twos My 18 month old male Umbrella is right there with yours. Do you have 'My Parrot, My Friend' by Doane and Qualkenbush? If you'd like to email me privately (if macaw list readers don't want to read about cockatoos), I can tell you what's been happening and what I'm doing to remedy (knock wood) the situation. Janet At 06:54 PM 8/26/96 +0000, you wrote: >Have any of you gone through the terrible twos with a large Too? If you have >or think you have, can you tell me all about your experience? I have a 22mo male >Umbrella and he is in the throes! > > > ------------------------------ From: Janet Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 02:28:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Macaws Digest V6 #213 I was told by a longtime breeder/owner that the paint used on large kitchen appliances is the best for cages. Janet At 12:17 AM 8/28/96 +0000, you wrote: >I'd like the answer to this question, also. The seed-catcher to my macaw's >cage is extremely scratched up, and I'd like to paint it before I put it >back on. It's black, and I'd appreciate any suggestions. > >Mary > >At 03:27 PM 8/27/96 -0500, you wrote: >>Can any one tell me if their is a safe paint to use for a cage. I got a >>message from someone but wanted to check here before I call her back. >> >>Casey >> >> > > >Mary Knapp, Gillette, Wyoming >Owned by Igor, B&G; Zaphod, DYHA; and Bogie, CAG > > ------------------------------ From: Margaret Shaia Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:24:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Severe Macaws Stephe: Thanks for the info about your Severe pair. At 05:34 AM 8/27/96 +0000, you wrote: >I can't tell you a THING (from personal experience) about SINGLE severes, >but I just purchased a bonded pair, and they are FAR from friendly..... I >risk a finger or two just feeding them and changing their water. These >birds have eyes ONLY for each other, and to protect each other from any >interlopers! > >But I can't wait to hand-raise their babies! Maggie Paco (half-moon conure) Monet (painted conure) and Leila (Moluccan) ****************************************************** Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall be endlessly amused. ****************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Margaret Shaia Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:24:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Severe Macaws Dear Caryn and Syd Thank you very much for sharing about your severe macaw. This confirms what I've heard about these birds. Perhaps it can help get me over foolishly falling "tail over beak" for a baby which is already sold to a 12-yr-old boy! Thanks again for your honest assessment. Probably shouldn't add this bird to a flock with two conures and a M2! At 10:15 PM 8/26/96 +0000, you wrote: >Maggie: > >I do not have any experience with the loudness of M2s but our severe is so >loud that my husband leaves the house for hours just to get away from her. > From outside of our apartment you can still hear her all the way around the >back of the building by the lake. She demands to be held constantly. She >too was very cute and cuddly when we first got her, but she has always been a >one or two person bird, no one else can even look in her general direction. > The severe biting started at about 2 1/2 years of age. My husband has a >scar on his lip from where she almost bit right through his lip. He also has >mutiple scars on arms and fingers. She never bites me that hard, though we >never trust her near our faces anymore. Before all of this happened she used >to sleep with us and ride on our shoulders. Definitely a high maintenance >bird. >Caryn and Syd > Maggie Paco (half-moon conure) Monet (painted conure) and Leila (Moluccan) ****************************************************** Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall be endlessly amused. ****************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Janet Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 14:19:05 +0000 Subject: Re: polyoma and fairs/shows I have never been to a bird fair/show of any kind. There is one local bird club here that sponsors three annual events, one of which is coming up next month. I would like to go, but I am really nervous about it and wonder if I should just skip it. I'm not going bird shopping. I'd like to check out the vendors. I know about changing clothes and showering before going near my bird. What I'd like to know is simply, is it worth it to go to this event?? Will I see things being sold at a better price than in stores or catalogs? I called the club producing it and they said the birds and other vendors will be in the same room. Should I go or should I pass? Janet ------------------------------ From: Monica Sudds Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:17:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee's Babies! At 05:02 PM 8/27/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Gang! Need help! > Have my two babies (GW B&G...both 20 weeks) and all is well. They >don't always seem to want handfeeding, so I don't force the issue. > Here's the question: Each one has its own Grand Macaw Calif. Cage and >I can't decide whether to leave them together in one cage while I'm away >at school or put them in their separate cages. These two have been >raised together and seemingly can't stand to be apart!! When I let them >out they go nuts till I put them together. You should see them >preen/clean each other...you'd swear it's a mating ritual!! > These cages are huge, but I was always taught that each large bird >needs its own cage/space. With one water dish and 2 others for food >there should be no problem keeping them fed. We are talking @ 8 hours. >Opinions?? Thanks! > Lee > It almost sounds like you would like to keep them housed together. Just realize that by doing this, they may be more interested in each other than they are in you forever. Also, if they end up being male and female, you are looking at possibly producing hybrid macaws in the future. They may even become nippy toward you because you will possibly be observed as the intruder. Of course, do what you think is best, but I would force the issue and separate them as soon as possible if they were mine. I always separate the babies that I raise together immediately after weaning and sometimes even before. They will get over it, and you will have much better companions for YOU. The only babies that I've ever had that became nippy, are babies that I had to keep together because I didn't have the space for all the separate cages. After separating these babies from each other, they all went back to being sweet and cuddly. Monica =============================================================================== Monica Sudds CAS, Pres. Beakers Parrot Society, Iowa State Coordinator for AFA Beakers Exotics beakers@probe.net http://www.probe.net/~beakers/ 3217 Italy Avenue 712) 642-4578 24 hr. fax (712) 642-3710 Missouri Valley, IA 51555 (comments, questions and polite criticism welcome!) =============================================================================== ------------------------------ End of Macaws Digest V6 #216 **************************** To subscribe to Macaws-Digest, send the command: subscribe macaws-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@newwave.net". 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