From: Macaws-Digest-Owner@newwave.net To: Macaws-Digest@newwave.net Subject: Macaws Digest V6 #899 Reply-To: macaws@newwave.net Errors-To: Macaws-Digest-Owner@newwave.net Precedence: Macaws Digest Thursday, 13 March 1997 Volume 06 : Number 899 In this issue: Ojibway story: "Nanbush and the Rude Eagle" Re: b&g macaws washing dishes Re: [Fwd: Flame about postal fraud]reprint Re[2]: b&g macaws Re: Flame about postal fraud -Reply Re: b&g macaws Re: Baby (it's kinda long) re: washing dishes Re: Flame about postal fraud -Reply Different view point of Harrison re: washing dishes -Reply Re: HAVE A BUBBLEGUM CIGAR FOLKS 'CAUSE IT'S A BIRD Re: Baby See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the Macaws or Macaws-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Reyman Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 13:19:28 -0600 Subject: Ojibway story: "Nanbush and the Rude Eagle" Nanabush is a traditional Ojibway culture hero who, in one story, creates the world. I wish that I had a scanner so that I could send along the fine illustrations that accompany this and the other stories in the Ojibway sourcebook. But I don't, so use your imaginations: One day, while travelling, Nanabush became lost. Well, not really lost, but not really sure exactly where he was. He decided to ask the first bird or animal he met. As he walked, he heard the flapping of wings. Looking up, he saw an eagle in the sky. Nanabush cupped his hands to his mouth and called to the eagle in the eagle's language [those of you who talk to your birds and have them understand what you are saying will recognize Nanabush's ability]. The eagle looked down at Nanabush but said nothing. Indeed, he ignored Nanabush completely and flew away. Nanabush was not to be put off as easily as that! "H'mm," he exclaimed, "I can see that I must teach that bird some manners!" And without another word, Nanabush used his magic poers to transform himself into an eagle, and within a moment he was flying through the air, chasing that ill-mannered eagle. Now Nanabush had changed himself into a giant eagle with pwerful wings and a long, cruel beak. The flapping of his wings could be heard for many miles, and he so startled the rude eagle that the eagle turned and flew upward as fast a she could. Nanabush, too, turned upward, and followed the eagle. They flew through the clouds and emerged into the upper air, where the light of the sun was so bright that it dazzled their eyes. One and on they flew, and as they climbed higher, the air gre warmer and warmer. It soon became uncomfortably hot at the drew nearer and nearer to the sun. The ill-mannered eagle did not dare to stop, for Nanabush was swiftly gaining on him. Suddenly the frightened eagle faltered from dizziness. He had flown so close to the sun that the soft feathers atop his head became scorched and burned, leaving his head exposed to the sun's intense heat. Nanabush closed in on the eagle, forcing him to change course and fly downward again, back toward our Mother, the earth. Just before they reached the ground, Nanabush swooped beneath the ill-mannered eagle and prevented him from landing. Then Nanbush turned and shouted, "Now you have learned, Eagle, not to turn your back when Nanabush asks you a question. You have been punished, and I'll not pursue you further. But because you have been rude to Nanabush, you and all your descendants shall never again be able to grow proper feathers on top of your heads, and you will look to other animals and men as if you are bald. And furthermore," Nanabush added after a moment's thought, "You shall never set foot on solid ground in safety. Whenever you land, you shall always be in grave danger of being killed." So saying, Nanabush flew away and left the rude eagle in peace. We Ojibway say that it was because of this adventure that the descendants of this ill-mannered eagle are known as bald eagles - eagles the roost and nest in trees and cliffs and who come to rest on solid ground only when it is absolutely necessary. Jonathan ------------------------------ From: Akamj@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 14:29:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: b&g macaws In a message dated 97-03-13 11:47:45 EST, you write: << Too often, they are "weaned" too fast - the owner says weaned, the baby doesn't. Claire >> Hi Claire, I'm wondering about the macaw who decides he wants to be a "big bird". Calabash (3 1/2 months) has decided that he'll only eat if the food is put on a plate in front of him, and will literally run or fly the other way if he sees that any of us intend to feed him his formula (won't accept syringe, spoon or bottle). Now, the problem lies in that he is not proficient enough at eating to be able to get enough *in* him...and yet, no matter how hungry, he must do it himself. HMMMM....this current problem was why I posted a minute ago that if the handfeeder is terribly inexperienced (as you know I was) IMHO, it's better to get the bird after it's weaned & self-sufficient in the feeding dept. Opinions? And thank you again for all your help thru these months! mj ------------------------------ From: Lori Cotton Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 13:53:18 -0600 Subject: washing dishes Hi all Lately when I come home from work, I have to spend one on one time with Petri or she follows me all over the house. She is very clingy and cuddly doing somersaults and giving kisses. Usually after a few minutes I can go about my business but last night when I tried to put her back on her cage she just sat on my arm without moving as quite as she could be, I think hoping I would not notice she was there. I said OK but hang on while I do dishes. She handled the roller coaster ride of washing and rinsing dishes until she finally move up to my shoulder (the only time I let her up there is when both hands are busy). She is trying to talk so for each dish I washed I would say what it is was plate ...spoon ...glass ...cup. When I said cup she yells HOT as loud as she could. I kept saying cup and she would yell HOT. I guess a cup is now hot. Lori, Petri, Peve, Pita ------------------------------ From: Henry Kugell Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:14:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Flame about postal fraud]reprint Elizabeth Struck wrote: > > Henry asked if this could be reposted. Good thing I forgot to delete. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > I deleted the post as I didnt weant you all to have to go through it again. WOW AMAZING As a person who ships birds on a regulr basis I find this guy unbelievable. Because of what has happened to me over the years I ask for payment in full before I ship but I am up on what the invilved fright cost and the airline times. Delta has a book with all that info. I just wouldnt have the guts to do that and it sure sheds a dim light on people who ask for payment up front. I can assure you all that this guy is not the norm. If this happened to me I think I would contact the States Atty Generals office in N.H. also I find this experience very disturbing. Henry ------------------------------ From: "Daniels, Ralph" Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 15:26:45 EST Subject: Re[2]: b&g macaws Macaws wean at different times. You should use times as guidelines only. I have B&G wean at 2.5 months and have had them wean at five months. With soaked pellet diets macaws wean quicker. When your macaw refuses to hand feed monitor the wait and droppings and if they are fine your bird should be fine. Each B&G is unique in their very own special way. Good Luck Ralph Daniels daniels@wg.com Clayton, NC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: b&g macaws Author: macaws@exoticbird.com at WG-RAL-SMTP Date: 3/13/97 12:19 PM On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 11:21:35 -0500 (EST) lpd4@cornell.edu writes: >I think everyone on this list is going to advise you to wait until >your >macaw is fully weaned. Lynn > Lynn, I won't with a macaw since they can take 6 months to wean but I think that 3 months is too early for two feedings a day. I got my "weaned" greenwing at 5 months - back to two feedings a day; same with 4 month old B & G. Four or five months is a good time to get them - they still have a little time to go before weaning. Too often, they are "weaned" too fast - the owner says weaned, the baby doesn't. Claire >On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, MOM CODY K SEIDLER wrote: > >> I am going to get a B&G macaw in about a week or two. My baby is >> about 2.5 months old. I wanted to take him when he is down to 2 >> feedings a day. I wanted to take him as early as I could because I >> wanted to bond with him as young as possible. I have never hand fed >a >> baby before. Does anyone have some advice for me? Am I trying to >take >> him home to early? Thank you, Cody >> > ------------------------------ From: Chelan152@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:54:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Flame about postal fraud -Reply You should file a complaint. i am a breeder but I do not ship - but I know many good breeders who do and this kind of thing hurts everyone. Please don,t let this one bad experience to you against all breeders. Always ask for reference's. I'v been taken a few times but I still deal with each person as an individual. Cheryl ------------------------------ From: Chelan152@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:54:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: b&g macaws I breed Macaws - Mostly Greenwings but have fed many others also. i would never send a baby Macaw home till it was weaned. You can bond just as well with a weaned baby bird as one that you feed. Feeding your new baby with a spoon of table food will help the bonding. Two weeks after I send a baby home they bring them back to see me and I am no longer mommy anymore, it dosn't that long for them to love someone who loves them Cheryl ------------------------------ From: Paula.Estrada@airliquide.com Date: 13 MAR 97 15:09:44 CST Subject: Re: Baby (it's kinda long) MJ, I cannot decide between: Icarus, Bronx, Pharoah or Kismet. (but Bronx and Kismet are definitely in the lead!!!) When I visited it on Tuesday, it was making all sorts of interesting noises, growling, purrs, skwaks, while I talked to it. Then I told my loving hubby that I thought it "knew" me and he in hystericks wanted to commit me........So I brought him in to see the baby and told him to talk to it. Of course the baby did not respond, just kind of sat there until I talked to it. Then the rucuss started again. As you said so what if it's wishful thinking, my hubby is a beleiver now... : ) I honestly couldn't hand feed one, I was the mom in the hospital that cried when the nurses wouldn't let me hold my first born (due to a fever I had) but when my second came along I passed on having my son in the room because I KNEW what kind of sleep I was going to get when he came home. I want to be able to prepare myself for when he/she comes home. So I know I can use this time to talk to people and read up and visit in the pet shop to prepare!! Thanks for your thoughts! Paula - ------------- Original Text From: C=US/A=INTERNET/DDA=ID/macaws(a)exoticbird.com, on 3/13/97 11:46 AM: In a message dated 97-03-13 01:42:28 EST, you write: << I saw it yesterday and I could swear it recognized my voice. (or is that wishful thinking......) thanks for your wonderful thoughts, and is yours at home yet??? >> Hi Paula, That's why I chose an androgynous name for my bird (ie Pat, Chris etc)....so that I could name it & stick with the name, no matter what the sex. I also believe they respond to voices, & if it's wishful thinking, then who cares? After all, what a nice wish!!!!! My baby came to my house when he (or she???) was 8 days old. Until that 1st feeding with Calabash (which was also his 1st human feeding) I had never handfed a bird. It has been very scary, incredibly stressful & incredibly joyful to watch this bird go from "cornish game hen w/a head" to a beautiful feathered work of art that loves me! If I had it to do over again, I'd choose to have someone experienced do the handfeeding & weaning....it's not a job for a rookie. My trial by fire has, so far, proven me to be very lucky. As I look back, I see lots of mistakes & lots of times when I might've lost this bird. He's had several infections and been on meds a great deal of the time I've had him. Who knows whether this was my fault, my stupidity or fate? The point is, if I'd known then what I know now, I'd have LISTENED when breeders & experienced birders say it's worth it to pay a bit more & get a bird that's already weaned, vet checked etc. They know whereof they speak! The happiest side of this story is...having a macaw is wonderful. They are so much company, and they're entertainment at its finest. Enjoy your baby & visit him as much as you can to make the time pass faster. Did you choose a name yet?? mj ------------------------------ From: Paula.Estrada@airliquide.com Date: 13 MAR 97 15:20:19 CST Subject: re: washing dishes Lori, I love the story, but why don't you let her on your shoulder unless both hands are busy?? (sorry I am ignorant on quite a few things) Paula - ------------- Original Text From: C=US/A=INTERNET/DDA=ID/macaws(a)exoticbird.com, on 3/13/97 12:56 PM: Hi all Lately when I come home from work, I have to spend one on one time with Petri or she follows me all over the house. She is very clingy and cuddly doing somersaults and giving kisses. Usually after a few minutes I can go about my business but last night when I tried to put her back on her cage she just sat on my arm without moving as quite as she could be, I think hoping I would not notice she was there. I said OK but hang on while I do dishes. She handled the roller coaster ride of washing and rinsing dishes until she finally move up to my shoulder (the only time I let her up there is when both hands are busy). She is trying to talk so for each dish I washed I would say what it is was plate ...spoon ...glass ...cup. When I said cup she yells HOT as loud as she could. I kept saying cup and she would yell HOT. I guess a cup is now hot. Lori, Petri, Peve, Pita ------------------------------ From: Pkgm@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 16:47:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Flame about postal fraud -Reply I agree you should file complaints with the postal authorities, State Attorney's office, Better Business Bureau, and also with publishers of Bird Talk magazine. You will be surprised how quickly a person will change their mind if they are borderline dishonest and correct the situation. Actually word-of-mouth is the best form of advertisement if the person does not return your money or supply you with the bird and I would inform this person that you will gladly give him free advertisement - all bad. Phyllis ------------------------------ From: Lori Cotton Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:43:51 -0600 Subject: Different view point of Harrison Hi all I was very impressed with the mail about Harrison and called for a free sample. I ask my breeder what he thought and got quite a reaction. I will pass on what he said, which may start an interesting thread Lori, Petri, Peve, Pita Anyway, the "complete" pellet isn't anything new. The original pelleted diets developed in conjunction with the San Diego Zoo were nutritionally complete. Most of them are now. But people could eat nutritionally complete "pellets", too--wouldn't be good for 'em though. There's a psychological side to eating, too. The SD Zoo after a 5 year test period went back to include fruits, veggies, etc. for the mental well being of the birds. Birds like texture, color, size difference, etc. And get more of it from natural foods. So, yes, they can be nutritionally complete, but no, I'd never feed any bird an exclusive pellet diet. ------------------------------ From: Lori Cotton Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 15:59:24 -0600 Subject: re: washing dishes -Reply I love the story, but why don't you let her on your shoulder unless both hands are busy?? (sorry I am ignorant on quite a few things) Paula Hi Paula Height is a domance thing with birds. There are lots of opinons on the mail list on this subject. Petri has a tall cage and spends lots of time much higher than I. I don't have a problem with her when there is distance between us. She comes running down to me for any chance to be held. I have notice there is a little king of the hill body language when she is on my sholder. So I don't usually let her up there. Lori, Petri, Peve, Pita ------------------------------ From: WildGoldn2@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:07:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: HAVE A BUBBLEGUM CIGAR FOLKS 'CAUSE IT'S A BIRD Hi everyone, What does "Postal Flame" mean? Tami ------------------------------ From: Akamj@aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 17:42:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Baby In a message dated 97-03-13 16:04:19 EST, you write: << I was the mom in the hospital that cried when the nurses wouldn't let me hold my first born (due to a fever I had) but when my second came along I passed on having my son in the room because I KNEW what kind of sleep I was going to get when he came home >> Paula, LOL...your human child experiences are exactly like mine, and this is partly why I'll probably tell anyone who asks that I think it's better to leave the handfeeding to those who know what they're doing (but then how do you ever learn???). Anyway, I can't wait to hear more about your experiences. I'm so glad the baby is responding to you...and especially that he did it in front of your hubby!!! Good timing! Between Bronx & Kismet, my vote would probably be "Kismet" (I'm involved in theatre, so it has a double meaning!) Kismet refers "good luck" or "good fortune" that occurs totally by chance, which is a nice thought when applied to a baby that you love! mj ------------------------------ End of Macaws Digest V6 #899 **************************** To subscribe to Macaws-Digest, send the command: subscribe macaws-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@newwave.net". 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